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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 19, 2007 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: When is a "Star" a star"?

During the career of the Grateful Dead, they played "Dark Star" God knows how many time--and never the same way twice.

My question is this: when it began its life in the studio, it clocked in at under three minutes. Later in life, obviously, it expanded and contracted according to various factors.

Now, 1968--first half of 1971, both verses of "Star" were sung. By the fall of 1971, the second verse started to disappear as the band flowed from the jam straight into another song. In 1972, the verses started to cease altogether.

By the time "Star" was freintroduced, the verses were usually pretty much gone.

Now "Star" is recognizable by the opening duh-duh-da-dum, and everyone screamed with delight. But the early forms tended to have some sort of structure--certain themes would often emerge. By 1972, those thematic structures were gone, and "Star" was a launching pad for free form improvisation at its best. Gone were the themes--though there were times when some structured moments would occur--e.g. Philly 1972.

Okay, my question. By the time the thematics had disappeared and the band went into what we call "Space," all that was left were those opening notes. Is what followed really a "Star"?
Or is the "theme" played simply as a prelude to "Space"? When does "Star" end and "Space" take over?

I realize that one good answer is who gives a fuck,it's all good. But I'd love to hear other takes on this question.

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Poster: dc2 Date: May 20, 2007 10:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

When those first notes sound, and it is 1968-1978, Dark Star is in bloom.

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Poster: darkstar1964 Date: May 19, 2007 8:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

its all star....just cause they improvise a little does'nt mean its not the star.
just like the 72 truckins or other 1's, it embodies the spacious parts as well as the theme.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 19, 2007 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

Okay: the theme. But what about when they go into "Space"? Is that still part of D.S.? My take is that it gets difficult to segment things the later on we go, you and I. Of course, this is ultimately a silly question.

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Poster: darkstar1964 Date: May 19, 2007 10:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

yes ...the space...for the space is'nt really "space" as it is part of the song.just because the song stretches is to a spacey jam or space, does not mean it IS space,its still part of the song. even if it dissolves away from the theme!
even if space leads up & into the star,at one moment it is darkstar. and not neccasaraly at the da da de do...da da de do theme either.it could be well in advance of the
opening themeatic notes.say u got a truckin>darkstar segment with a monster jam & space segment between them...at 1 point truckin stops & darkstar begins.their is no "space" ,per say.space is really only space,when played as space.......say like when the song>drums>space>song segment came into being later on.or something like that.
WOW! did any of that make sense?
(smiley face here)

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 19, 2007 12:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

Yes it did make sense. And that's the scary part!

A good response--of course there is a flow from one "song" to another. It gets confusing to play name that tune sometimes.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 19, 2007 11:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

I'm in agreement with DS64. Just one thing to add - I don't consider any jam " space", even if it's weird trippy and space. I consider space the formal one they came up with around 78 then later was set in stone right after drums

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Poster: HiRoller Date: May 19, 2007 4:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

Can we call it "weirdness" then? Look at the Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack, you have He's Gone>Jam>Weirdness. Can the Dark Star jam turn into something that's not space, but not Dark Star?

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 19, 2007 4:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

Oh yeah, I know what you mean. I know what your were getting at too. Here's my take - IF it has at least one verse then it's Dark Star until the next song begins. Although I guess there are jams I consider Jams between songs. I guess I'm uncertain now. DANG! Now I will have to think : )

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Poster: cush212 Date: May 20, 2007 1:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

Did it hurt much?

Once a dark Star always a Dark Star> Until the next tune...

?:)

Looks kind of like Conan don't you think...

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: May 20, 2007 5:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: A rose by any other name . . .

Space was a tag that deadheads applied to the really--out--there segments of the 1972 jams. You know, the place where the mirror ball got lit up. I guess that Dark Star is ultimately more than a musical phrase. It's an ephemeral place in which you can be free to dance with the music. To rope Dark Star into a category or a specific musical mode would be to fail to "get it." The opening notes, to me, serve merely as a signal that it is time to go, you and I . . . .

The rest is music.

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Poster: cush212 Date: May 19, 2007 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

Yes...

Attachment: 176502main2_hst_dark_ring_1_250px2.jpg

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: May 19, 2007 10:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: When is a 'Star' a star'?

yes indeed!!!

Attachment: gd77_10_29thumbfront.jpg

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